Another Deleted Sheffield Forum Thread

I have only been able to salvage one page from this thread ( It is the 13 page on the thread but relates to this deleted thread: linky here

Things related to Keepmoat have a habit of disappearing, maybe they tried the same trick with Sheffield Forum that they did with us – threaten them with Police and Court action?

A bit of background. Several residents of the Keepmoat Horizon development in Darnall, Sheffield have felt the need to complain about the management of the site. Eventually Sheffield Counselor Clive Bett got involved with the ongoing issues and he contacted Blue Property Management Company (appointed by Keepmoat to take over the maintenance of the site from themselves). In his letter to BPM he mentioned the thread on Sheffield Forum outlining the issues/complaints the residents were having.

Background to Keepmoat/Blue Property Company. Vanessa Burling is a Sales Director at Keepmoat Homes. She is a director at Horizon (Darnall No1 and Darnall No2) Management company along with David Ward (Regeneration Regional Managing Director for Keepmoat).


Blue Property Management UK Limited is a subsidiary of Blue Property Group Limited.

Peter Evans one the directors of Blue Property Management Limited/Blue Property Group is a director for other property management companies, including HAWTHORNES 2011 MANAGEMENT LIMITED, SEASONS THURNSCOE MANAGEMENT COMPANY LIMITED, and AMARANTHUS MANAGEMENT LIMITED, – all Keepmoat sites.

SEASONS THURNSCOE MANAGEMENT COMPANY LIMITED lists the following as directors: Peter Evans, Vanessa Burling and David Ward.

Page 13 from the Thread:

20-12-2014, 09:41


I will do. Not sure I will any time soon though with it being so close to Christmas. I agree about the bund and signage and how they’ve gone about it and also that we all need to be singing off the same hymn sheet and have sent the same email as you.

There must be more people on the estate who are sick of BPM and their silly games as we got that flyer through the door a few weeks ago, did you receive one?

20-12-2014, 10:03


I got a flyer about 4-5 months ago but nothing more recent.

What I find particularly strange is that I received an email from BPM in June this year just after they had cleared the acoustic bund. In the email was a copy of a letter that they were proposing to send out to residents explaining that the cost of the bund clearing was “extra work” and that we would ALL have to pay an extra £18.

I vented my anger at them back in June (making all of the points I have posted on here in previous posts) and although they didn’t respond, no letter has been forthcoming.
I assumed they had seen the error of their ways until now.

Why have they waited nearly 6 months to begin billing residents???

Either they have been waiting for peoples anger to subside or they are hoping that the passage of time will further cloud the issues. More worryingly they may have been looking into the legalities of what they are doing and attempting to build a strong argument. Having said all that it is probably just another example of their ineptitude and incompetence!

———- Post added 21-12-2014 at 13:38 ———-

Hi again,

I just wanted to make residents aware of the following;

If you wish to pay your “regular” maintenance fee by monthly standing order I can confirm that up to now there is no extra cost for doing this.

Basically you just need to contact them for their bank details and set up a monthly standing order for 1/12th of the cost.

I much prefer to do this as it gives back some element of control. If BPM decide to neglect their duties again I will have no hesitation in cancelling the standing order and as so will only have paid for the work they have actually undertaken.

I would encourage as many people as possible to pay their maintenance fee using this method as if it ever reaches the point where we attempt to dispose of their services and seek alternatives I don’t hold out much hope of anyone receiving refunds on monies paid.

28-12-2014, 17:31


Does anyone know if the bins got collected as usual on Friday with it being the holidays? We’ve lost track of days and couldn’t remember if the snow came before/after bin collection should have been.

Last edited by pintsized; 28-12-2014 at 17:38.

06-01-2015, 00:14


Dont know if anyone saw the 2 massive stocky dogs tonight that had gotten loose, black, had collars on, both very similar, built like rotweilers, wandering along the bund near Rustic court and out to brindle mews/clay pit way.

If anyone knows who owns them, they should point them this way. I called the police as they looked dangerous and were barking and snarling at me (but couldnt get past my fence) but the police didnt seem to care (imagine they actually wanted someone to get bitten before it was worth their time).

12-01-2015, 19:49


My husband has been in touch with Clive Betts MP regarding the Blue Property issue. We have received a response to say that Clive is available to meet with us this coming Sunday -18th January, at 1pm, venue to be confirmed.

He wanted an idea about how many residents might attend.

Please respond to this post if you’d like to come along, and let your neighbours know.

We are hoping to push some flyers through doors over the next couple of days but our printer is on the blink so that will have to await us having access to a photocopier (unless anyone can help out by doing this on our behalf??)!

Also, we have tried to speak to citizen’s advice a couple of times to no avail so far.

And surprisingly have not got an email response from Blue Property when we asked the question as to why we should pay this additional £18.

15-01-2015, 20:08


meeting has been postponed to sunday 25th at 1pm, to ensure we can get the whole estate notified


Alex (strangelord’s husband)

20-01-2015, 10:50



I’ve just received the letter. We would have liked to come but unfortunately we have booked a mean for my mums 60th for 1:30 and there’s a lot of us so it would be a pain to alter it all now. I am going to send an email back to him. I hope that will be ok. I think the more the better that turn up really, it’s typical Sundays usually would be fine for us. Please let me know how it goes.


20-01-2015, 13:16


I have today received the letter from Clive Betts.

As I am probably unable to attend I have emailed my views along with some documentary evidence.

My neighbour will be attending as he has also been in constant dispute and he as asked me to ask if there is anything in particular he needs to bring along to support the arguments? He doesn’t have internet access so please let me know if you would like him to bring any evidence, documentation etc.

20-01-2015, 18:23


Hi all, I’m glad people have got the letter and I’m hoping it will be enough notice for at least some to attend.

My husband forwarded details about the history to Clive at the weekend, however, I can bring along copies of documents we’ve had. If anyone else has any evidence to bring that would also be useful though!

Here’s hoping this moves the situation forward…

———- Post added 25-01-2015 at 15:07 ———-

Thanks to everyone who made it to the meeting with Clive Betts earlier this afternoon -it was encouraging to see that there was a pretty good turn-out. Thanks also to those of you who couldn’t make it but forwarded Clive your input in advance.

The outcome was that in the next week Clive is going to draft a letter to Blue Property around the issue of them only charging for work it can be evidenced that they have done, and that in our TP1 contracts it is clearly stated that management companies can make an annual charge for their services but there is no mention of them being allowed to make additional charges.

He also felt very strongly that Keepmoat have some responsibility being that they employed Blue Property -so he is going to draft a letter to them also. Residents shared some interesting information that strongly suggests close affiliations between Keepmoat and Blue Property…

He will send these drafts out to residents (by email to those who attended today I believe) to check/add to if necessary/approve before they are sent on to both companies.

He also agreed to check out with the council the original planning rights for the estate and who currently has ownership responsibility for the communal areas, as a favorable option may be for residents to seek to take on this ownership ourselves.

He said it would also be very helpful for residents to forward to him any other relevant documentation e.g. communication from Blue Property etc. His email address is on the letter he sent to us all about today’s meeting. I didn’t really want to post it on this forum without his permission!

If anyone who wasn’t there today wants to private message me with their email address I can ensure I keep you in the loop.

25-01-2015, 19:17


Hi Strangelord,

I’m really gutted that I was unable to attend but thank you for escalating this matter.
Having read your post above and not yet having had the chance to speak to my neighbour (who did attend) I do have one concern.

You state “The outcome was that in the next week Clive is going to draft a letter to Blue Property around the issue of them only charging for work it can be evidenced that they have done, and that in our TP1 contracts it is clearly stated that management companies can make an annual charge for their services but there is no mention of them being allowed to make additional charges”.

This seems to me an open invitation for Blue Property to carry out any work they wish to and then add the cost to the budget. The bund is a prime example. They have carried out over £2000 of unauthorised work and although they have “incorrectly” sent out a separate charge to each resident, the letter in your proposal appears to me to give them the authority to add the charge to the budget as they can clearly prove that the work has been done! My contention was that this work should NOT have been done without prior consultation in the first place. I hope I have misunderstood but if not I believe the letter from Clive will give them Carte Blanche to do whatever they want.

Whether they send out a separate charge or add future “extras” to the budget I personally will NOT be paying unless there has been some degree of consultation and agreement with everyone involved!

25-01-2015, 21:00


We haven’t paid it for a while and I don’t intend paying it to these sharks until they sort their selves out. They can do words I can’t even wrote on here. All I want to pay is what I originally agreed when purchasing the house plus a slight bit more as things do go up but I’m not paying it when they keep adding on ridiculous amounts. We should be able to chose he want to manage the estate. We have to pay it not keep moat.

25-01-2015, 21:23


I think that would be a very good point to put across to Clive regardless of whether that was what the intention was. There should be no wriggle room for them to charge us retrospectively for work they can show they’ve done but the residents of the estate have not collectively agreed to.

27-01-2015, 10:44


Not for me thanks

27-01-2015, 18:20


Hi all,

The difficult situation we are in is that there is nothing in our contracts that states there cannot be changes to the annual amount a property management company wants to charge us. Believe me, I am as frustrated about the matter as anyone else! In terms of the points of view of residents who attended the meeting being put across to Clive I felt that the majority of issues raised on this forum were brought up. There was quite a good representation of residents present -at the very least 30 people I would say, and all I can suggest is that if people have other concerns to email them to Clive because it did seem that he was willing to take this forward on our behalf.

27-01-2015, 19:50


Sorry strangelord but I have to disagree.

The contracts state that the annual maintenance charge MAY be subject to “reasonable increases”. From an initial £54 (2 years ago) the annual fee is now around £88 and it WILL increase next time believe me! The increase equates to over 60% and I for one wouldn’t class that as reasonable! If you factor in the additional £18 they are asking for then we are looking at an increase of over 95%. I will of course make my feelings known to Clive Betts but I fear we may be missing a great opportunity here!

28-01-2015, 20:16


I don’t think we need to be debating this between ourselves . I’m just the messenger! As far as I am concerned we are all on the same side and I want what’s best for this estate just as much as anyone else.

Speak to your neighbours and see if they got a different impression than I did…

28-01-2015, 21:07


I am not debating this with anyone, merely putting across my opinions. This is an open forum and anyone is free to read and contribute! I have spoken to my neighbours who were able to attend the meeting and I still have my concerns regarding the letter Clive intends to send. Please let me be 100% clear, I fully endorse Clive’s involvement and I’m sure he has come across similar cases in the past but as I said in a previous post I feel that we may be handing them Carte Blanche to do whatever they please. Talking as stupidly as I can, what’s then to stop them, without any consultation, planting award winning rose bushes all around the estate and adding the cost to the next budget? I will of course reserve judgement until I have seen the draft letter that he intends to send, I’m sure all will be fine. Of course we are all on the same side. There are a handful of residents on here who have been fighting these scumbags for 3 years and I’m just worried that we don’t take full advantage of this opportunity. Personally I would love them to be replaced by another Management Company but it may be a case of “better the devil you know” and if the “Clive effect” can rein them in a bit I will be the most delighted resident on the estate!! Regardless of the outcome I will continue to pay what I feel is a fair amount and not a penny more and I would freely encourage others to do the same. For me It is not about the amount they charge it is about value and being reasonable! Reasonableness is not in their vocabulary and I doubt any court in the land would side with them!

29-01-2015, 08:05



The argument you are having is with the TP1 agreement, it does give them carte blanche to charge what they want.

That’s why we are all working – together I hope – to get rid of them and change the agreement.

Clive isn’t going to send them a letter that will allow them to charge more.

You seem to largely be arguing with yourself over this matter.

Me and my wife (strangelord) have tried hard to do something positive about this situation, and we feel that you seem to be putting a lot of energy into mis-understanding everything we are saying.

Firstly, what was said in the meeting was that Blue Property are not allowed to levy extra payments such as the £18 that they have asked for.

This, surely is a positive.

Secondly, we have all experienced that they pretend work that is already part of their remit is extra work in order to charge more every year, they’ve done it every year, and getting a letter from Clive CRITICISING THEM FOR THAT and explaining that the service they provide is not up to scratch for the money they charge, is not going to encourage them or give them more scope to do that.

The scope they have to do that was written into our contracts when we bought our houses by keepmoat.

There is every intention to say all the things that you are talking about! I really don’t understand the need to come over so negative about the whole enterprise!

However, as all my personal communication with Clive has been conducted using his publicly available email address, maybe you would like to communicate with him, as it plain that you are very anxious about the content of the letter Clive is writing.

I think that in your eagerness to make sure all the points you have to make are heard, you are seeing disagreement where actually we are on the same page.

The point of all this is we all want rid of Blue Property, because as you say they are unreasonable, and to be able to put in place a new maintenance company and a new contract that will mean they are answerable to residents, and can not charge whatever they want.

Let’s not misdirect our adversarial spirit at each other, and save it for keepmoat and Blue Property.



29-01-2015, 09:11


Firstly I am not “arguing” with anyone apart from Blue Property. I am merely putting across my opinions and the tone of your post really disappoints me.

Without a shadow of doubt we should all be “working together” and I sincerely hope this is the case.

The introduction of Clive Betts is an extremely positive step and as I have stated numerous times I am delighted that you arranged this. It was impossible for me to attend, very sorry!!
You seem to be taking any comments I make very personally but you really shouldn’t. We are indeed on the same side I can assure you of that!

A previous comment made by member “pintsized” sums up my feelings perfectly “There should be no wriggle room for them to charge us retrospectively for work they can show they’ve done but the residents of the estate have not collectively agreed to”

I have not “disagreed” as you say, with one word both yourself and your wife have posted on here and I applaud your “enterprise”. I have merely voiced concerns regarding what I believe to be important issues that were NOT included in posts.

I can only go on what you put on here as I was unfortunately unable to attend your much appreciated meeting. THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN FOR ARRANGING IT!

My “adversarial spirit” is not misdirected toward you so once again please don’t take my comments personally.

I have not yet had the pleasure of meeting yourself or your wife but I am more than happy to do so!

You are certainly correct that I have an “eagerness” to have my points heard but I see no “disagreement” whereas you clearly do! Trust me Alex I am firmly on your side! I am on my side, my neighbours side, the side of EVERY resident on here and every resident who has issues with Blue Property so yes, lets please stop this nonsense!

I am not one to “hide” behind a computer screen so as I said earlier I am more than happy to have an amicable face to face chat if you see any benefit! Please don’t accuse me of being negative, personal or critical, it simply is NOT the case! Lets lighten the mood lol!!!!!!

One thought on “Another Deleted Sheffield Forum Thread

  1. admin Post author

    I received a new post alert on 28/02/2015 from Sheffield Forum. tel 38 had posted “What has happened to the thread entitled “Horizon (Darnall No2) Residents Committee”.
    It seems to have disappeared from this site. Can anyone else access it or has it been removed. Maybe I’ve been banned for being too controversial hahaha.”

    I responded on the forum to confirm that it had been deleted. I also searched Google cache in order to copy the deleted information to create a page on our site.

    tel38 responded with “What a coincidence!!!

    The thread gets deleted after BPM receive the letters from Clive Betts!!

    I hope its for some other reason and not due to a complaint by BPM to Sheffield Forum otherwise my initial fears regarding Clive’s disclosure of that particular thread to BPM seem to have been justified!
    Regarding the extra £18 charge by BPM……My neighbour has spoken to several residents who HAVE paid the charge sent to them by BPM, obviously unaware of the current dispute we are having with them so it will be interesting to see if refunds are given out should this dispute be successful. Both myself and my neighbour (and I suspect a few other members of this forum) HAVE NOT yet received the demand so again I believe they have sent it solely to the “non moaners” in an attempt to gather as much money as possible without “rocking the boat” too much. This is wholly unfair on the residents who have coughed up and again I suspect it may even be illegal but I’m no lawyer!!

    This particular thread was not disclosed to Clive and obviously still remains active so hopefully BPM are unaware of its existence.”

    Shortly after posting this the thread was deleted.


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